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and the domestic spending cuts. fiscal cliff is not cutting spending. it's about preventing a tax increase that preventing spending cuts. now the republican arguement is more complicated. to use the deadline, legitimate argument. i agree with it in principle. use the deadline to get the longer range spending cuts. the president can say fine, i want to negotiate those next year. can't do it in three weeks. incidentally, speaker boehner what medicare cuts are you for, he will say? if the republican position, the republicans campaigned against $716 million in medicare cuts from the current program. republicans for medicare reform. not for squeezing the current program. they will say i want to give the middle class, make sure the middle class tax rate stay where they are. i don't want the republicans to squeeze medicare more than we did, have done in the past. i'm worried. that the president has an awful lot of leverage. >> bret: but you have the democrats, juan, like mike pryor of arkansas who told politico this -- "as you know people around here like the
and the domestic spending cuts. fiscal cliff is not cutting spending. it's about preventing a tax increase that preventing spending cuts. now the republican arguement is more complicated. to use the deadline, legitimate argument. i agree with it in principle. use the deadline to get the longer range spending cuts. the president can say fine, i want to negotiate those next year. can't do it in three weeks. incidentally, speaker boehner what medicare cuts are you for, he will say? if the...
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what's on the men knew could be the fiscal cliff. >>> treasury secretary timothy geithner tried to find common ground on the hill during meetings with both sides. >> revenue is on the table but revenue was only on the table if there were serious spending cuts as part of this agreement. it has to be part of the agreement. we have a debt crisis. >> this is very similar to what happened on the payroll tax holiday. you recall the president was calling for it, the senate voted for it house democrats want it republicans isolated themselves and painted themselves into the corner and they had to come around. i think they'll come around. >> plus, benghazi round three. we'llal
what's on the men knew could be the fiscal cliff. >>> treasury secretary timothy geithner tried to find common ground on the hill during meetings with both sides. >> revenue is on the table but revenue was only on the table if there were serious spending cuts as part of this agreement. it has to be part of the agreement. we have a debt crisis. >> this is very similar to what happened on the payroll tax holiday. you recall the president was calling for it, the senate voted...
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cliff negotiations. 67% expect cringe-worthy immaturity. they don't have much faith in the congress, and they're crying out for a balanced approach. the same poll found 67% want a budget deal with a mix of spending cuts and tax increases, not just spending cuts alone. >>> back to that pledge. that pledge never to raise taxes. the rose grover nordqvist -- they aren't in this pledge. >> i pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america. >> and a few brave lawmakers are beginning to acknowledge that their constituents may want flexibility. >> i answer to my constituents, not to a pledge. my constituents certainly don't want me to come to washington to raise their taxes, but
cliff negotiations. 67% expect cringe-worthy immaturity. they don't have much faith in the congress, and they're crying out for a balanced approach. the same poll found 67% want a budget deal with a mix of spending cuts and tax increases, not just spending cuts alone. >>> back to that pledge. that pledge never to raise taxes. the rose grover nordqvist -- they aren't in this pledge. >> i pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america. >> and a few brave...
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the big story is still and will remain the fiscal cliff. every time a policymaker on capitol hill or in the white house makes a speech about this or a station to the media, the markets move very aggressively. yes, there is a case in point where boehner and obama said there was progress that could be made towards a compromise. the markets turn around to 220 points on the dow. but on 20 points and the dow having been down 110 closed up 106 points. that's because john boehner said they could well be some progress on a compromise. that flies in the face of harry reid saying little progress is made. that is what is driving the u.s. markets and the global markets as well. the fed's beige book says there is a tepid growth. you have the housing market against that manufacturing and superstorm sandy. interesting stats expected out of the auto sectors. this could be good news. we think there may ab a pace of somewhere in the region of 15.2 million cars sold in november. the fact is that americans got very old fleet of cars. the average age of car now
the big story is still and will remain the fiscal cliff. every time a policymaker on capitol hill or in the white house makes a speech about this or a station to the media, the markets move very aggressively. yes, there is a case in point where boehner and obama said there was progress that could be made towards a compromise. the markets turn around to 220 points on the dow. but on 20 points and the dow having been down 110 closed up 106 points. that's because john boehner said they could well...
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washington, the potential fiscal cliff is expected to bring tax hikes and spending cuts it all americans, and what is really at stake when it comes to your home? and we're going to take a look at what could happen if lawmakers and the white house don't reach an agreement very soon. >> kelly: indeed, we will. plus, a man counting his blessings after coming face-to-face with a shark. . >> you know, you've got to look at this at like the emt told me on the way here, you could have had this or struck by lightning and the odds are about the same. [ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus presents the cold truth. i have a cold, and i took nyquil, but i'm still "stubbed" up. [ male announcer ] truth is, nyquil doesn't unstuff your nose. what? [ male announcer ] it doesn't have a decongestant. no way. [ male announcer ] sorry. alka-seltzer plus fights your worst cold symptoms plus has a fast acting decongestant to relieve your stuffy nose. [ sighs ] thanks! [ malennouncer ] you're welcome. that's the cold truth! [ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus. ♪ oh what a relief it is! ♪ [ male announcer ]
washington, the potential fiscal cliff is expected to bring tax hikes and spending cuts it all americans, and what is really at stake when it comes to your home? and we're going to take a look at what could happen if lawmakers and the white house don't reach an agreement very soon. >> kelly: indeed, we will. plus, a man counting his blessings after coming face-to-face with a shark. . >> you know, you've got to look at this at like the emt told me on the way here, you could have had...
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the fiscal cliff? >> listen, there's a framework that we presented to the white house two weeks ago. the framework is -- has been agreed to in terms of really a down payment on the end of this year. that would include spending cuts and it would include revenue. setting up a process for entitlement reform next year, and tax reform next year. but this was way out of balance. and not a recognition on the part of the white house about the serious spending problem that we have. [ inaudible question ] going over the fiscal cliff, you called serious business, extending the lower tax rates -- [ inaudible question ] >> i'm going to do everything i can to avoid putting the american economy, the american people through the fiasco of going over the fiscal cliff. >> which is worse for the economy? [ inaudible question ] could you include a debt limit that is in the overall package? >> as i told the president a couple weeks ago, there's a lot of things i've wanted in my life, but almost all of them had a price tag a
the fiscal cliff? >> listen, there's a framework that we presented to the white house two weeks ago. the framework is -- has been agreed to in terms of really a down payment on the end of this year. that would include spending cuts and it would include revenue. setting up a process for entitlement reform next year, and tax reform next year. but this was way out of balance. and not a recognition on the part of the white house about the serious spending problem that we have. [ inaudible...
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spending cuts at the end of the fiscal year. it has really shocked republicans this year on capitol hill. they say it calls for, for one thing, $1.6 trillion in new tax hikes over a decade. it is also stimulus spending and the spending cuts. both sides are necessary to reduce the deficit. those the president would largely tackle later perhaps next year. >> first despite the claims that the president supports a balanced approach, the democrats have yet to get serious about real spending cuts. no substantive progress has been made in the talks between the white house and the house over the last two weeks. listen, this is not a game. jobs are on the line. the american economy is on the line and this is a moment for adult leadership. >> perhaps most su prirprising the white house proposal to get the president just about unlimited power to raise the nation's debt sealiceiling and w more and more money unless they reject. these will be tough negotiations ahead. we got a little sample of this yesterday from senate majority leader talki
spending cuts at the end of the fiscal year. it has really shocked republicans this year on capitol hill. they say it calls for, for one thing, $1.6 trillion in new tax hikes over a decade. it is also stimulus spending and the spending cuts. both sides are necessary to reduce the deficit. those the president would largely tackle later perhaps next year. >> first despite the claims that the president supports a balanced approach, the democrats have yet to get serious about real spending...
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it is a republican compromise solution to the impending fiscal cliff. spending cut and tax increases that both sides mean would mean recession. after what both sides called a frustrating weekend. today's development don't appear to break a log jam. not yet. ed henry begins our coverage. >> reporter: good evening. they are saying the plan is ridiculous, so much so they will not offer counterproposal to the g.o.p. counterproposal and say tonight unless speaker boehner gives in on raising taxes on the rich, the president is ready to go off the cliff. >> right now i'd say we are nowhere, period. nowhere. >> john boehner declaring a stalemate in an exclusive with fox, as republicans teed off on president obama first offer that included new spending plus 1.6 trillion in tax hikes. totally unacceptable. >> i think we are going over the cliff. it's clear to me they made political calculation. white house officials insisted disaster could be amended and demanded a counter offer on the table. >> what we hope for is specificity from the republicans. >> an hour lat
it is a republican compromise solution to the impending fiscal cliff. spending cut and tax increases that both sides mean would mean recession. after what both sides called a frustrating weekend. today's development don't appear to break a log jam. not yet. ed henry begins our coverage. >> reporter: good evening. they are saying the plan is ridiculous, so much so they will not offer counterproposal to the g.o.p. counterproposal and say tonight unless speaker boehner gives in on raising...
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cliff. >> as both sides in washington try to hammer out agreements on taxes and fiscal spending, they get the full media treatment as the press try to pin the blame on the g.o.p. is it working? details next on news watch. okay, here's the plan. you have a plan? first we're gonna check our bags for free, thanks to our explorer card. then, the united club. my motr was so wrong about you. next, we get priory boarding on our flight i booked with miles. all because of the card. and me. okay, what's the plan? plan? mm-hmm. we're on vacation. there is no plan. really? [ male announcer ] the united mileageplus explorer card. the mileage card with speci perks on united. get it and you're in. why does my mouth feel dryer than i remember it to be? there are more people taking more medication, so we see people suffering from dry mouth more so. we may see more cavities, bad breath, oral irritation. a dry mouth sufferer doesn't have to suffer. i would recommend biotene. the enzymes in biotene products help supplement enzymes that are naturally in saliva. biotene helps moisten those areas that have
cliff. >> as both sides in washington try to hammer out agreements on taxes and fiscal spending, they get the full media treatment as the press try to pin the blame on the g.o.p. is it working? details next on news watch. okay, here's the plan. you have a plan? first we're gonna check our bags for free, thanks to our explorer card. then, the united club. my motr was so wrong about you. next, we get priory boarding on our flight i booked with miles. all because of the card. and me. okay,...
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but that's just one part of the fiscal cliff debate. the other side of this, the massive spending cuts that have now educators ringing the alarm. they warn of increased class sizes, the elimination of after-school and summer school programs, libraries could close, all this as the u.s. tries to close an achievement gap. joining me now to continue our education nation conversation, world-renowned educator dr. steve perry, also host of tv one's "save my son." steve, it's great to have you here. the secretary of education, arne duncan, has said that 9 million students would be affected by the cuts including nearly 2 million that are already living in this country in poverty. when we talk about special education needs for the kids of our country, we're essentially about to take away resources from the students that need it most. however, we're not talking enough about that. >> one of the reasons why there's even a conversation about cuts is not so much because there's less money coming in, it's because of so much money going out. where we sp
but that's just one part of the fiscal cliff debate. the other side of this, the massive spending cuts that have now educators ringing the alarm. they warn of increased class sizes, the elimination of after-school and summer school programs, libraries could close, all this as the u.s. tries to close an achievement gap. joining me now to continue our education nation conversation, world-renowned educator dr. steve perry, also host of tv one's "save my son." steve, it's great to have...
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say democrats on capitol hill vote for including the spending cuts in this deal to avoid the fiscal cliff. that is not what they are doing now. should they include those? >> yes. i think that, and i know that democrats accept that this has to be it, a balanced package, that includes revenues and cuts and spending cuts. >> months ago, the budget carney held up was voted down by the entire senate. 99-0. meaning no democratic support. earlier, dick durbin insisted spending cuts from entitlement reform will not be part of the talks while pelosi spell noncommittal whether the cuts will be in the deal. still, the administration is trying to breathe life to the talks, with vice president biden shopping at new costco in washington, picking up a big screen tv and apple pie and insisting he is optimistic of a deal. >> i am. i am. all the folks in the store, man. going to make a difference. >> carney shot down a politico report that a phone call last night between boehner and the president was curt, noting it was 28 minutes long and productive. signaling the president is flexible on taxes not being
say democrats on capitol hill vote for including the spending cuts in this deal to avoid the fiscal cliff. that is not what they are doing now. should they include those? >> yes. i think that, and i know that democrats accept that this has to be it, a balanced package, that includes revenues and cuts and spending cuts. >> months ago, the budget carney held up was voted down by the entire senate. 99-0. meaning no democratic support. earlier, dick durbin insisted spending cuts from...
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the other thing that will happen with the fiscal cliff is the massive withdraw of government spending and we haven't talked about that as much as taxes. people with less money because of tax cuts going away would have less money to spend into the economy but also the federal government withdrawing federal spending from parts of the economy that are used to getting it, the military, et cetera but other sectors nonmilitary. that's the other piece that could hurt people. >> when we talk about the fiscal cliff and back and forth that is happening between the white house and the hill, i guess i'm confused because on one hand there is a sense that this is all par for the course, they know they're going to get a deal done, it's fine, everything is good and then there's also this sort of the pr blitz which is, we are very far from a deal. this is what ayman alluded to this, the speaker had a press conference a few minutes ago. david axelrod giving his take and john boehner giving his take. let's take a listen. >> you saying then for pr purposes -- >> the president and the speaker are very flu
the other thing that will happen with the fiscal cliff is the massive withdraw of government spending and we haven't talked about that as much as taxes. people with less money because of tax cuts going away would have less money to spend into the economy but also the federal government withdrawing federal spending from parts of the economy that are used to getting it, the military, et cetera but other sectors nonmilitary. that's the other piece that could hurt people. >> when we talk...
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the reason we find ourselves about to go off the fiscal cliff with the automatic spending cuts, in part is because back in 2011, they wanted to raise the debt ceiling and the republicans said you cannot do it unless we do spending cuts. we cannot just do deficit spending. so they agree, they cut this deal, now the democrats are going to the republicans and saying, forget that. let's just in the position to get rid of it. what on earth would make them think that republicans would agree to that? >> because the president thinks he has a mandate from the whole country. he thinks he can get anything he wants. i am sure that alan colmes loves this idea. here are the problems. the congress has the authority to authorize the debt. they also have the authority to authorize the bill that pays the debt. so now the president wants to take that away. this guy has shown a tendency to say that i don't need congress. i can pass laws with a stroke of a pen on executive orders. he doesn't need the supreme court because he declares laws unconstitutional, like doma. he says he wants an unlimited credit car
the reason we find ourselves about to go off the fiscal cliff with the automatic spending cuts, in part is because back in 2011, they wanted to raise the debt ceiling and the republicans said you cannot do it unless we do spending cuts. we cannot just do deficit spending. so they agree, they cut this deal, now the democrats are going to the republicans and saying, forget that. let's just in the position to get rid of it. what on earth would make them think that republicans would agree to that?...
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insult and finger pointing in the fiscal cliff debate. tax rates spike and spending slashed. congress is breaking for the holidays in two weeks. it could send the economy spinning in directions. $1.6 trillion in tax hikes. he will travel to pennsylvania to sell it to you. republicans aren't buying it. listen to house speaker, john boehner. >> despite the claims the president supports a balanced approach, the democrats have yet to get serious about real spending cuts. >> democrats are firing right back at boehner. harry reid getting a little personal. >> i don't understand his brain, so you should ask him. okay? >> ouch. athena jones live from washington. same old same old. where do we go from here? >> that's the big question. the nice talk after the election is pretty much gone away. you mentioned one of the big sticking points, that's taxes. republicans and democrats can't agree on how to raise the tax revenue? end the bush tax cuts for the wealthy, close the loopholes, raise the capital gains taxes or all of the above. right now, they can't agree on how much money should be
insult and finger pointing in the fiscal cliff debate. tax rates spike and spending slashed. congress is breaking for the holidays in two weeks. it could send the economy spinning in directions. $1.6 trillion in tax hikes. he will travel to pennsylvania to sell it to you. republicans aren't buying it. listen to house speaker, john boehner. >> despite the claims the president supports a balanced approach, the democrats have yet to get serious about real spending cuts. >> democrats...
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cliff. >> if republicans do not agree to that, is the administration prepared to go over the fiscal cliff in. >> absolutely. there's no prospect to an agreement that doesn't involve those rates going up on the top 2% of the wealthiest. it's only 2%. >> i want to bring in "usa today" bureau chief and welcome to both of you. where are we in these negotiations, susan? >> i think the most encouraging thing was they agreed to the to characterize the phone call. the last time around the characterization of the phone call became a controversy in itself. i think it's pretty clear that the white house and republicans think the white house hand on this is strengthening. we see the polls that you mention, pew polls this week say americans trust the president more, assume if a deal is not reached -- trust the white house more, think if a deal isn't reached it, will be the fault of republicans and it is in fact easier for democrats to go over the fiscal cliff than it is for republicans because then all t
cliff. >> if republicans do not agree to that, is the administration prepared to go over the fiscal cliff in. >> absolutely. there's no prospect to an agreement that doesn't involve those rates going up on the top 2% of the wealthiest. it's only 2%. >> i want to bring in "usa today" bureau chief and welcome to both of you. where are we in these negotiations, susan? >> i think the most encouraging thing was they agreed to the to characterize the phone call. the...
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be part of these fiscal cliff talks. where it may break down on the part about whether the president will push democrats on capitol hill to go along. it was tuesday that dick durbin said spending cuts, medicare cuts, ets, should not be part of these fiscal cliff cuts. we'll see whether durbin and others on the hill go along with what jay carney is saying. we'll see if that improves the possibility of a deal. megyn: we have 33 democratic lawmakers saying we are not touching social security now or for the future. this jackhammer is really rude. >> reporter: the cuts are being made as we speak. it's hard to cut the government. megyn: alert frank, the two guys features in your first report. someone else came to the white house hat must have been an extraordinary moment. mitt romney and obama get together. for me it's awkward that they had the meeting at the white house. was that mean? shouldn't they have don't at a tgif. neutral ground? not to rub his nose in the place that he wanted to live. >> reporter: given romney's fina
be part of these fiscal cliff talks. where it may break down on the part about whether the president will push democrats on capitol hill to go along. it was tuesday that dick durbin said spending cuts, medicare cuts, ets, should not be part of these fiscal cliff cuts. we'll see whether durbin and others on the hill go along with what jay carney is saying. we'll see if that improves the possibility of a deal. megyn: we have 33 democratic lawmakers saying we are not touching social security now...
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on the fiscal cliff. judge andrew napolitano. fox news senior judicial analyst. juan williams, columnist with tannehill. byron york from the "washington examiner." judge, what do you make of this? we had back and forth and we talk about this every day. every day there are developments. >> the president insistence on raising tax rate is reprehensible and violates economics 101. raising tax rates will not necessarily produce more revenue. the president is more interested to punish the rich and perceived reward for base. doesn't put more money in the federal treasury. the republicans give in to this in spirit of compromise, i respect alan simpson. but this is a time for the republicans to say no to spending no, borrowing. no to taxes. do you any any republicans sent to congress to facilitate the president spending to us oblivion? they no. or they will be sent home. >> president feels like he was elected on a campaign where he mentioned on the stump many times, raising tax rates. >> i understand that. >> but under our system the congress writes the law and president
on the fiscal cliff. judge andrew napolitano. fox news senior judicial analyst. juan williams, columnist with tannehill. byron york from the "washington examiner." judge, what do you make of this? we had back and forth and we talk about this every day. every day there are developments. >> the president insistence on raising tax rate is reprehensible and violates economics 101. raising tax rates will not necessarily produce more revenue. the president is more interested to punish...
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cliff. take a listen. >> everybody's taxes are scheduled to go up. and unless we fix that, paradoxically president obama becomes the defender of the bush tax cut for 98% of the people and he is he no such thing. >> bottom line is both sides are still laying out the same ideas they have been doing for weeks now. today irskin bowls one of the key budget experts says he believes there is a two thirds chance that he wool go off the fiscal cliff. that's not too optimistic tonight, shep. >> shepard: not at all. ed henry live on the north lawn. the president is sending one of his top negotiators to capitol hill tomorrow to meet with congressional leaders from both parties. mike emanuel is live for that part. is he live on the hill tonight. what's the latest on the talks. >> there is always hope for tomorrow that's when treasury secretary tim geithner come up here to capitol hill to have individual meetings with the top four lawmakers. one of them nancy pelosi, the house democratic leader who was as
cliff. take a listen. >> everybody's taxes are scheduled to go up. and unless we fix that, paradoxically president obama becomes the defender of the bush tax cut for 98% of the people and he is he no such thing. >> bottom line is both sides are still laying out the same ideas they have been doing for weeks now. today irskin bowls one of the key budget experts says he believes there is a two thirds chance that he wool go off the fiscal cliff. that's not too optimistic tonight, shep....
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cliff with revenue and spending cuts departments are willing to embrace so we can make sure we avoid this fiscal cliff and particularly raise the debt ceiling and avoid economic disaster. >> if that's the only particular issue to confront us next year if it is not wrapped up in this one negotiation as it should be. later in the show, we'll talk to chris van hollen, your colleague about a motion to dismiss possibility that would circumvent john boehner's extrasty to keep this bill off the floor. we will see about that. look, will rogers famously said i'm not a member of on organized party, i'm a democratic. you seem to tame the beat. under your leadership, the party has been unified. you had remarkable gains in the senate. how did you do it? >> this is a team effort. in fact, you took the words right out of my mouth from the d.n.c. meetings. i quoted will rogers in celebrating our victory because i think that will rogers would be surprised and proud that the party that he knew not to be organized was very well organized, had a ground game that was well coordinated that, you know, the
cliff with revenue and spending cuts departments are willing to embrace so we can make sure we avoid this fiscal cliff and particularly raise the debt ceiling and avoid economic disaster. >> if that's the only particular issue to confront us next year if it is not wrapped up in this one negotiation as it should be. later in the show, we'll talk to chris van hollen, your colleague about a motion to dismiss possibility that would circumvent john boehner's extrasty to keep this bill off the...
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it is december 1st, one month from the deadline for the so-calleded fiscal cliff. the drama is building. check out what house speaker, john boehner, had to say this week. >> the white house spends three weeks of trying to develop a proposal that calls for $1.6 trillion in new taxes, calls for a little, not even $400 billion in cuts and they want to have this extra spending that's actually greater than the amount they are willing to cut. it was not a serious proposal. right now, we are almost nowhere. >> oh, mr. boehner, you have got it all wrong. it is a serious proposal, really serious. godfather serious. >>> watching the d.c. drama convinced those of us in nerdland that president obama must be a fan of the francis ford copel la masterpiece. remove the lethal components and there are valuable negotiating lessons that the president seems to be picking up on, like this one. >> my father taught me many things here. he taught me in this room. he caught me keep your friends close but your enemies closer. >> well, president obama keeping his opponents close in hand. lun
it is december 1st, one month from the deadline for the so-calleded fiscal cliff. the drama is building. check out what house speaker, john boehner, had to say this week. >> the white house spends three weeks of trying to develop a proposal that calls for $1.6 trillion in new taxes, calls for a little, not even $400 billion in cuts and they want to have this extra spending that's actually greater than the amount they are willing to cut. it was not a serious proposal. right now, we are...
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no matter how close the country comes to plunging off the fiscal cliff, topped a visors say the president will not budge until republicans acknowledge they will keep tax rates where they are for middle income families and raise them on households earning more than $250,000 a year. >> in washington nothing's easy so there's going to be prolonged negotiations. and all of us are going to have so get out of our comfort zones to make that happen. g'm willing to do that. i'm hopeful that enough members of con willing to do that as well. we can solve these problems. but where the clock is really ticking right now is on middle- class taxes. >> reporter: but the clock isng. the cold political reality is this: mr. obama is now on record seeking twice as much in higher tax revenue than the democratically controlled senate passed earlier this year with only 51 votes. tax increases that cannot pass ase senate have no chance in the house republican conference, which is why republicans regard the president's proposal and his heech today as more static than substance. >> pelley: major, thank you. well, t
no matter how close the country comes to plunging off the fiscal cliff, topped a visors say the president will not budge until republicans acknowledge they will keep tax rates where they are for middle income families and raise them on households earning more than $250,000 a year. >> in washington nothing's easy so there's going to be prolonged negotiations. and all of us are going to have so get out of our comfort zones to make that happen. g'm willing to do that. i'm hopeful that enough...
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president obama has the leverage in the fiscal cliff fight. he's willing to let the tax go up on the middle class. on the debt increase he doesn't have the same leverage. bob woodward pointed out that tim geithner said to president obama if the republicans stick to their guns on the debt limit bill you cannot reto it. the consequences will be so clam to us that you cannot veto it. so obama would have capitulated. megyn: that's what simon is saying now. that we shouldn't put the country in that position. >> the only way we'll get action on this debt. we keep spending and spending and raising our debt by $6 trillion every obama term. that's what catastrophic. the republicans need to stick to the boehner rule. a dollar of spending cuts for every dollar in spending increases. why give in on taxes and the fiscal cliff fight when you will have all the leverage. megyn: simon? >> in the rasmussen poll that came out today the republicans lost 10 points since the election in the congressional generic fight. they are losing this economic argument right n
president obama has the leverage in the fiscal cliff fight. he's willing to let the tax go up on the middle class. on the debt increase he doesn't have the same leverage. bob woodward pointed out that tim geithner said to president obama if the republicans stick to their guns on the debt limit bill you cannot reto it. the consequences will be so clam to us that you cannot veto it. so obama would have capitulated. megyn: that's what simon is saying now. that we shouldn't put the country in that...
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i think the fiscal cliff we are spending a lot of time on and we will continue to see deleveraging of trades that have worked because of all of the tax implications. i don't think you can be sure this is the same santa claus rally that you want to blindly buy. last year was very painful to people who thought fundamentals would win out. you ran into deleveraging flows that were related to policy. if you don't think we are not going to have policy issues through the end of the year you are crazy. >> i think we all do the same, i believe that you can time the market and pick stocks. i know people believe that. it is interesting that today we talked about ranges in the s&p. i think we have done a good job. look at where we traded up to that 1425 that we have talked about being resistance number of times. i don't want to make a big deal out of this. today was an outside day from friday's range the low, lower than friday's low. it has been in a very defined range. i think we traded towards the upper end and i think we are heading twarts the 1375 and 1380 level again. you trade that range un
i think the fiscal cliff we are spending a lot of time on and we will continue to see deleveraging of trades that have worked because of all of the tax implications. i don't think you can be sure this is the same santa claus rally that you want to blindly buy. last year was very painful to people who thought fundamentals would win out. you ran into deleveraging flows that were related to policy. if you don't think we are not going to have policy issues through the end of the year you are crazy....
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cuts made to avoid the fiscal cliff would affect native-american issues. and you may remember yesterday, the president met with a group of six governors on this issue. this has become the primary focus on washington. alison burns is in our d.c. newsroom with more on this. >> reporter: that's right, tori. president obama is trying to convince these business leaders that he has a plan to avoid the fiscal cliff and get the economy back on track. but he says it's going to take some sacrifice. here's a look at the president shaking hands with business leaders about 15 minutes ago and he's calli for tax increases on the wealthiest americans and an extension of tax rates for the middle school. talks have fallen apart in recent days. but the president insists he's working with republicans to try to get a deal. republicans are willing to cut -- >> reporter: republicans are willing to cut loopholes. here's what john boehner said. >> the revenues being put on the table are gonna come from guess who? the rich. >> reporter: republicans say it's clear to them that presi
cuts made to avoid the fiscal cliff would affect native-american issues. and you may remember yesterday, the president met with a group of six governors on this issue. this has become the primary focus on washington. alison burns is in our d.c. newsroom with more on this. >> reporter: that's right, tori. president obama is trying to convince these business leaders that he has a plan to avoid the fiscal cliff and get the economy back on track. but he says it's going to take some sacrifice....
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ted nugent weighs in on the fiscal cliff fiasco something he said we drove off a long time ago. he writes in "the washington times" social security, medicaid and medicare spending needs to be slaughtered and let's stop the insanity of the right to vote of any american on welfare. once they get off well taer and are self-sustaining they get their right restored. no american on welfare should have the right to vote for tax increases on those americans working and paying taxes to support them. >>> and "the daily show's" jon stewart says maybe we should go off the fiscal cliff. >> back and forth of offers. it's pretty clear the republicans aren't going to come to the table with anything reasonable. i'll be the one to say it, i know it will be disastrous and doom our economy for years to come, let's go over the [ bleep ] cliff. fine. just leave the negotiating tables and send us over the cliff. you know why? at least for a few seconds, it will feel like we're flying. >> all right. that's going to wrap things up for me today. thanks for your time. see you back here tomorrow at 11:00 e
ted nugent weighs in on the fiscal cliff fiasco something he said we drove off a long time ago. he writes in "the washington times" social security, medicaid and medicare spending needs to be slaughtered and let's stop the insanity of the right to vote of any american on welfare. once they get off well taer and are self-sustaining they get their right restored. no american on welfare should have the right to vote for tax increases on those americans working and paying taxes to support...
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i'm certain if this is not good enough for the white house, we will go over the fiscal cliff because this is a compromise on taxes. this is a compromise on mandatory spending and it's a compromise on discretionary spending over what the select committee had debated. >> the details if we can and i should mention that erskine bowles put out a statement saying this -- does not represent the bowles-simpson plan, nor is it the bowles plan. in my testimony before the joint select committee on deficit reduction, i simply took the midpoint of the public offers to demonstrate where i thought a deal could be reached at the time. he's very much backing away from speaking boehner's letter, but the question i wanted the to ask you -- >> can we spend one more point on that? >> of course. >> what did he say? that was the midpoint of a compromise from the two. so, here's speaker boehner who is taking a new point on the compromise between the two sides and offered it and it's already flatly rejected? >> i think what he might be rejecting, sir, if i may -- >> no, i'm not talking abo about erskine bowl
i'm certain if this is not good enough for the white house, we will go over the fiscal cliff because this is a compromise on taxes. this is a compromise on mandatory spending and it's a compromise on discretionary spending over what the select committee had debated. >> the details if we can and i should mention that erskine bowles put out a statement saying this -- does not represent the bowles-simpson plan, nor is it the bowles plan. in my testimony before the joint select committee on...
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i'm certain if this is not good enough for the white house, we will go over the fiscal cliff. >> this is a compromise on taxes. this is a compromise on mandatory spending. and it's a compromise on discretionary spending over what the select committee had debated. >> i should mention that erskine bowles has put out a statement himself. while i'm flattered the speaker would call something the bowles plan. the outline in the letter the speaker sent to the president does not represent the bowles simpson plan, nor is it the bowles plan in my testimony on deficit reduction. i simply took the mid point of the public offers, put forward during the negotiations to demonstrate where i thought a deal could be reached at the time. he's very much backing away from speaker boehner's letter. the question i wanted to ask you is some of the details, as you know, it's all in. >> can we spin one more point on that? >> absolutely. >> here's speaker boehner who is taking a mid point on the compromise between the two sides and offered it, and it's already flatley rejected? >> i think he may be rejected, si
i'm certain if this is not good enough for the white house, we will go over the fiscal cliff. >> this is a compromise on taxes. this is a compromise on mandatory spending. and it's a compromise on discretionary spending over what the select committee had debated. >> i should mention that erskine bowles has put out a statement himself. while i'm flattered the speaker would call something the bowles plan. the outline in the letter the speaker sent to the president does not represent...
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if congress allows the country to go over the fiscal cliff, the effects felt here could be dramatic. first and foremost, there's the rock island arsenal. if congress doesn't act, defense spending will be slashed by 55 billion next year, 450 billion over ten years, which many fear could put the arsenal in jeopardy. established in 1862, the arsenal is home to the army sustainment command, the first army, and the national cemetery. it's also the largest government run military manufacturing facility in the country. the arsenal is the area's largest employer, and though it is not clear how any cuts would impact the installation specifically, the mere prospect has people worried. >> there's approximately 8,000 jobs on arsenal island with various commands located there, and the average salary, not including benefits is about double on the island what it is off island. >> reporter: next, health care, another major employer in the quad cities. if congress doesn't act, medicare reimbursements will initially drop by 2%. trinity medical center in rock island is already budgeting for the fiscal
if congress allows the country to go over the fiscal cliff, the effects felt here could be dramatic. first and foremost, there's the rock island arsenal. if congress doesn't act, defense spending will be slashed by 55 billion next year, 450 billion over ten years, which many fear could put the arsenal in jeopardy. established in 1862, the arsenal is home to the army sustainment command, the first army, and the national cemetery. it's also the largest government run military manufacturing...
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that is the fiscal cliff. we shouldn't be dealing with other issues that are long term in order to avert the cliff as it were. that is immediate crisis. we have long term situation --. bill: but you know when lawmakers get a little bit of rope, you know, when they get time to think about it and push it off to the next year, it never gets done. this budget proposal, there are many who wonder whether or not even democrats could support it. the last budget that came from the white house went to the senate, it went 98-0 against it. no one voted for it. melissa: well, that was kind of a tricky parliamentary issue as well but, i do take issue with one thing, the idea we haven't dealt with entightments. we had two years, a year and a half we debated medicare. we made significant changes in medicare. we just had a campaign which republicans including governor romney time after time after time charged that we had cut $616 billion in spending out of medicare and we reformed the program. we have looking toward new ways t
that is the fiscal cliff. we shouldn't be dealing with other issues that are long term in order to avert the cliff as it were. that is immediate crisis. we have long term situation --. bill: but you know when lawmakers get a little bit of rope, you know, when they get time to think about it and push it off to the next year, it never gets done. this budget proposal, there are many who wonder whether or not even democrats could support it. the last budget that came from the white house went to...
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. >> while the national dialog is focused on the fiscal cliff which has the potential to significantly affect state budgets many governors are also tackling the implementation of obama care. starting in 2014 medicaid will be expanded to all americans within 138% of the poverty line, which is individuals making $15,000 a year or less, give health care to as many as 21 million additional americans. eight governors including one of those at the white house today, oklahoma republican governor mary fallin are rejecting the offer, concerned their states may have to foot the bill down the road. the president was sure to have some thoughts following their pow wow at the white house. the six governors are on to meet with house speaker john boehner and senate majority leader harry reid this afternoon, also sure to have some thoughts. joy, the medicare question is really interesting in terms of how the governors play this one. in so far as, if you're a republican governor and offered the federal -- the federal government says it's going to cover i believe 100% of the cost of expanding the rolls f
. >> while the national dialog is focused on the fiscal cliff which has the potential to significantly affect state budgets many governors are also tackling the implementation of obama care. starting in 2014 medicaid will be expanded to all americans within 138% of the poverty line, which is individuals making $15,000 a year or less, give health care to as many as 21 million additional americans. eight governors including one of those at the white house today, oklahoma republican governor...
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speak, roughly what size spending cuts do you think it would take to reach a deal on the fiscal cliff and do you think that at least the promise of spending cuts has to be included in this level of deal at this time? >> i don't think it's productive for either side to what i out hard lines in terms of what the size of the spending cuts ought to be. there are a lot of options on how you can get there. but the second part of your question was -- >> my question is do you think the promise of spending cuts has to be included in the deal that overts a fiscal cliff. >> there is a framework that we presented to the white house two weeks ago. the framework has been agreed to in terms of really a down payment on the end of this year. that would include spending cuts and it would include revenue. setting up a process for entitlement reform next year and tax reform next year. but this is way out of balance. and not recognition on the part of the white house about the serious spending problem that we have. >> based on the procespect of going over the fiscal cliff which you just called serious bus
speak, roughly what size spending cuts do you think it would take to reach a deal on the fiscal cliff and do you think that at least the promise of spending cuts has to be included in this level of deal at this time? >> i don't think it's productive for either side to what i out hard lines in terms of what the size of the spending cuts ought to be. there are a lot of options on how you can get there. but the second part of your question was -- >> my question is do you think the...
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the fiscal cliff is a bipartisan compromise that would do draconian cuts in the budget they never wanted in the first place. it's foolish to think congress will have a plan to fix things when congress designed the plan they are trying to fix. >> some democrats say entitlements can be on the table but should deal with long-term reform afterwards. here's what senator dick durbin said yesterday on "starting point." >> entitlements need to be part of the long-term strategy but do it in a thoughtful way. i don't want to see major changes decided in the heat of the moment. let's get through the fiscal cliff, find a way to avert it. but at the end of the day treat it as the important program it is for so many millions of americans. >> eric, if we get a deal, how much kicking of the can down the road do you think that deal will inclu include? >> i think it will include significant kicking the can down the road which is why they should kick the entire deal down the road and deal with it together. we know it won't from happen history. we have had 18 of these since 1981. more than half of the time
the fiscal cliff is a bipartisan compromise that would do draconian cuts in the budget they never wanted in the first place. it's foolish to think congress will have a plan to fix things when congress designed the plan they are trying to fix. >> some democrats say entitlements can be on the table but should deal with long-term reform afterwards. here's what senator dick durbin said yesterday on "starting point." >> entitlements need to be part of the long-term strategy but...
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the fiscal cliff is almost $8 trillion of spending cuts, revenue increases. which if you want to affect the debt, that's a big way of doing it. every economist says if you do that much that quickly, you are going to throw us back into a serious recession. you know what? at some point, we have to stop kicking the can down the road and actually thinking of long-term debt of this country. i'm never a big fan of senator cobern's positions but he's right. at some point we have to stop this. we need to do it quickly. >> and the fact is, we've got a huge spending problem. and so either you have to figure out a way to pay for what you say you want to do or reduce the spending and that's the piece that's not getting the attention it should right now. >> getting the attention from? >> either the media in some cases. they are talking about what we have to do on taxes. somewhere along the line we have to talk about what we have to do on spending. if you do as the president asks and that is raise taxes on the top 2%, it funds the government for 8 days. you can't get there
the fiscal cliff is almost $8 trillion of spending cuts, revenue increases. which if you want to affect the debt, that's a big way of doing it. every economist says if you do that much that quickly, you are going to throw us back into a serious recession. you know what? at some point, we have to stop kicking the can down the road and actually thinking of long-term debt of this country. i'm never a big fan of senator cobern's positions but he's right. at some point we have to stop this. we need...
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cliff instead of engaging in serious talks to avert the cliff, that includes spending cuts and tax reforms the president once supported. the white house has only offered a joke. i understand we have speaker boehner to the microphones. let's take a listen. >> when it comes to the fiscal cliff that's threatening our economy and threatening jobs, the white house has wasted another week. eight days ago secretary geithner came here to offer a plan that had twice the tax hikes that the president campaigned on. it had more stimulus spending than it had in cuts. and an indefinite, infinite increase on the debt limit, like forever. four days ago we offered a serious proposal, based on testimony of president clinton's former chief of staff. since then, there's been no counteroffer from the white house. instead, reports indicate that the president has adopted a deliberate strategy to slow-walk our economy right to the edge of the cliff. instead of cutting spending, the president want to raise tax rates. but even if the president got the tax rate hike that he wanted, understand that we would continue
cliff instead of engaging in serious talks to avert the cliff, that includes spending cuts and tax reforms the president once supported. the white house has only offered a joke. i understand we have speaker boehner to the microphones. let's take a listen. >> when it comes to the fiscal cliff that's threatening our economy and threatening jobs, the white house has wasted another week. eight days ago secretary geithner came here to offer a plan that had twice the tax hikes that the...
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they want to avoid the fiscal cliff, balanced approach, they want us to do it right now. >> right now secretary geithner should be wrapping up a meeting with the senate republican leader mitch mcconnell. maybe they will have a press conference. meeting with house democratic leader nancy pelosi at the top of the hour. dennis: i am sure the sox will gyrate wildly in response. thank you very much. cherly the u.s. embassy in cairo ordered close as protest continues over a recent decree by president mohamed morsi granting himself near absolute power in that country. managing director joins me now. obviously the impact now of the market here in the oil market in particular is what is each of the false into civil war. what happens to oil them. >> you have to look at the suez canal, therefore the price of oil. they do have a history of the army stepping in to maintain this. order in a situation like "the trade" time, what we have now is a different type of egypt. we had a guest on yesterday telling us the muslim brotherhood and hamas are the same thing. a terrorist organization in the minds o
they want to avoid the fiscal cliff, balanced approach, they want us to do it right now. >> right now secretary geithner should be wrapping up a meeting with the senate republican leader mitch mcconnell. maybe they will have a press conference. meeting with house democratic leader nancy pelosi at the top of the hour. dennis: i am sure the sox will gyrate wildly in response. thank you very much. cherly the u.s. embassy in cairo ordered close as protest continues over a recent decree by...
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cliff -- the real fiscal cliff is national bankruptcy, and its imminent if we don't cut spending and entitlements . obama is a bully, inflection i believe, making demands we can't accept because his demands involve spending increases, no spending reductions, tax increases on two percent of people who won't do anything with revenues. it's totally unacceptable. at least under the fiscal cliff we have some mandatory cut, albeit us proportionately to defense spending. but it's better than accepting obama's terms crammed down our throat. boehner needs to get a told of this pr machine and paint obama as the one who is holding the country hostage. he wants to talk about holding the middle class hostage. no, it's him holding the entire country hostage and our kids hostage to his reckless spending and cynical refusal to enter the entitlement reform game. >> i don't even want to hear more about taxes. juan, shaking your head. >> i hear you, gentlemen. you guys are wonderful. merry christmas. but sean you said hyperpartisanship, and david talks about inflexibility. you know, and i'm thinking to
cliff -- the real fiscal cliff is national bankruptcy, and its imminent if we don't cut spending and entitlements . obama is a bully, inflection i believe, making demands we can't accept because his demands involve spending increases, no spending reductions, tax increases on two percent of people who won't do anything with revenues. it's totally unacceptable. at least under the fiscal cliff we have some mandatory cut, albeit us proportionately to defense spending. but it's better than accepting...
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the president is drawing a line in the sand over the fiscal cliff talks. he said republicans must first cut a deal on middle class taxes. then they can wrestle over spending cuts. so as a businessman, do you agree with this strategy? >> well, don, great to talk to you today. i have to say it was a unique day to have marine one landing in our front yard and i couldn't ask for a better endorsement for the holidays than having the president of the united states buy some kinex this year. i think what the president actually said is what he said on the campaign trail, we're going to have -- both sides have to give, and we're going to have to get to a compromise to get a solution. and when i see the public skirmishing back and forth as a businessman, i'm frustrated and leaders in congress and congress don't seem to be able to understand the american people are watching and what they want say solution, not more bickering. >> what they want is a compromise. and even as a small business person, everyone talks about what the fiscal cliff could do to small business, w
the president is drawing a line in the sand over the fiscal cliff talks. he said republicans must first cut a deal on middle class taxes. then they can wrestle over spending cuts. so as a businessman, do you agree with this strategy? >> well, don, great to talk to you today. i have to say it was a unique day to have marine one landing in our front yard and i couldn't ask for a better endorsement for the holidays than having the president of the united states buy some kinex this year. i...
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. >> reporter: telling agencies to watch for massive spending cuts from going over the fiscal cliff and warped the business exectives the economy could take another hit if the republicans decide to extend the middle class tax cut to avoid the cliff for now. then come back with more leverage. to tie it to a hike in the debt ceiling. >> we are 23409 going play that game next year. if congress in any way suggests that they are going to tie negotiations to debt ceiling votes, take us to brink of default again, i will not play that game. >> republicans held their own meeting with small business owners denying they're trying to punt. >> i'll be here and available at any moment to sit down with the president to get serious abouting the problem. >> they noted the president has not scheduled any meetings with the g.o.p. leaders in weeks. not offered any counterproposal to boehner's plan from last week. >> a balanced approach the president has been asking for. now we need response from the white house. >> reporter: they continue to insist the impediment to the deal is boehner's tax revenue is not
. >> reporter: telling agencies to watch for massive spending cuts from going over the fiscal cliff and warped the business exectives the economy could take another hit if the republicans decide to extend the middle class tax cut to avoid the cliff for now. then come back with more leverage. to tie it to a hike in the debt ceiling. >> we are 23409 going play that game next year. if congress in any way suggests that they are going to tie negotiations to debt ceiling votes, take us to...
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the deal is to avoid a series of tax increases, and spending cuts that many believe would be a fiscal cliff that would kick in on january the 1st. chief congressional correspondent mike emanuel is watching it all unfold on capitol hill. what do we know about the visit about the expectations for what might happen during it. >> reporter: martha, timothy geithner arrived here on capitol hill a short time ago to meet first with senate majority leader harry reid. we know he's having individual meetings with the top four leaders of congress. what republicans have said they want to hear, and republicans will be critical, because they need republican support to get any final fiscal cliff deal through the senate, and also through the house, they say they hope that he's coming with concrete spending cut ideas that are acceptable to the administration. one of the meetings today will be with senate republican leader mitch mcconnell who a short time ago sounded pretty fired up. >> the only reason democrats are insisting on raising rates is because raising rates on the so-called rich is the holy gr
the deal is to avoid a series of tax increases, and spending cuts that many believe would be a fiscal cliff that would kick in on january the 1st. chief congressional correspondent mike emanuel is watching it all unfold on capitol hill. what do we know about the visit about the expectations for what might happen during it. >> reporter: martha, timothy geithner arrived here on capitol hill a short time ago to meet first with senate majority leader harry reid. we know he's having individual...
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the coming tax and fiscal cliff. joining us to talk about this, we're going to get a gop response, senate republican conference chairman john thune of south documeakota. welcome back to the show. "the washington post" runs an editorial today saying it's time for the president to unveil some leadership on entitlement reforms and spending cuts because he hasn't done it. i want to ask you at the president's pep rally today, did you hear any of those leadership reforms on spending and entitlements? >> i certainly didn't and, by the way, good evening, larry, it's nice to be with you again. i don't find myself often agreeing with the editorial page of "the washington post" but this time they had it right. the president right now, the pep rally today is going out again on friday is really a continue ways of the campaign when in fact right now what he ought to be doing is trying to find some common ground with republicans, with congress up here on capitol hill because we've got to do something to avert this fiscal cliff. the
the coming tax and fiscal cliff. joining us to talk about this, we're going to get a gop response, senate republican conference chairman john thune of south documeakota. welcome back to the show. "the washington post" runs an editorial today saying it's time for the president to unveil some leadership on entitlement reforms and spending cuts because he hasn't done it. i want to ask you at the president's pep rally today, did you hear any of those leadership reforms on spending and...
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jon: some new information now on the looming fiscal cliff negotiations. strong words from republican leadership after president obama's opening bid. the president wants $1.6 trillion in new taxes, $50 billion in new stimulus spending, and expanded powers for the president to raise the federal debt limit without getting any approval from congress. a senior house gop source calls the president's plan, quote, absurd. and provides a 6-point explanation to back it up. is the economy headed for that fiscal cliff? is all of this negotiating dead in the water? let's bring in our panel. monica crowley, radio talk show host and author of monomemo.com. jewelry roginsky former political advisor to senator frank lautenberg of new jersey. both fox news contributors. you say the president is not interested in compromise at all? >> no. i have just wrote a whole book about this called, what the bleep just happened. i traced first four years of his presidency. anytime he proposed a economic proposal or physical proposal it contained the exact same elements, which is tax hi
jon: some new information now on the looming fiscal cliff negotiations. strong words from republican leadership after president obama's opening bid. the president wants $1.6 trillion in new taxes, $50 billion in new stimulus spending, and expanded powers for the president to raise the federal debt limit without getting any approval from congress. a senior house gop source calls the president's plan, quote, absurd. and provides a 6-point explanation to back it up. is the economy headed for that...
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we go over the so-called fiscal cliff. and massive government spending cuts. >> and some people fear going off of the cliff could cost thousands of jobs and push our fragile economy back in recession. it seems like we have been down this road before. that deal according to the president and congressional republicans is far from a sure thing. the president said it was a so-called balanced approach to solve this crisis and what he proposed this week was a classic bait and switch on the american people. >> it is unacceptable for republicans to hold middle class tax hostage because they refuse to let them go up on the wealthiest americans. >> people saying that the deal he offered doesn't look like a deal. steve is live in the washington bureau. is there any movement on either side. >> not much. a few republicans who are willing to talk about higher tax rev news but not higher tax rates. the president made a direct appeal to the public. the toy factory in pin pen. he urged congress to pass a bill and extend the era tax cuts fo
we go over the so-called fiscal cliff. and massive government spending cuts. >> and some people fear going off of the cliff could cost thousands of jobs and push our fragile economy back in recession. it seems like we have been down this road before. that deal according to the president and congressional republicans is far from a sure thing. the president said it was a so-called balanced approach to solve this crisis and what he proposed this week was a classic bait and switch on the...
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. >>> as each day ticks by, the nation edges closer to going over the fiscal cliff. democrats and republicans cannot agree how to raise revenue and cut spending. on january 1st, as many of you know, taxes go up and doeep spending cuts take effect. the sunday talk shows reflect how far apart they are what we will not do is extend those tax cut force the wealthiest americans. there's no possibility that we will find a way to get our fiscal house in order without those tax rates going back up. >> nobody wants to go over the cliff. that's why the day after the election i tried to speed this process up by making a concession to put revenues on the table. it's unfortunate that the white house has spent three weeks doing basically nothing. >> speaker boehner added he is flabbergasted by the administration's proposals while secretary geithner said he believes a deal can be reached by the end of the year. >>> we could find out this morning if the supreme court will take up the issue of same-sex marriage. at 9:30 eastern, the court releases its orders list. there's a possibili
. >>> as each day ticks by, the nation edges closer to going over the fiscal cliff. democrats and republicans cannot agree how to raise revenue and cut spending. on january 1st, as many of you know, taxes go up and doeep spending cuts take effect. the sunday talk shows reflect how far apart they are what we will not do is extend those tax cut force the wealthiest americans. there's no possibility that we will find a way to get our fiscal house in order without those tax rates going...